I’ve mentioned in a previous posting how what stops so many people from coming out is a lack of certainty over the issue of whether or not they can find girls attractive. Even now, with rosho ve'rubo (my head and most of my body) firmly in the closet, and just a few carefully selected relatives and friends being aware of my homosexual feelings – I still wonder if I could make it with a girl.
Last week I met a girl who I dated around Pesach time. She was undeniably the girl I’d got on with the best out of all my dates over the years, and when her love for me became apparent, I knew I could mess with her mind no longer so I played my final card and insisted on living in the UK – something I knew she wasn’t prepared to do. The relationship ended, and she turned down my offer to remain friends on the grounds that it would be too difficult for her emotionally. Recently she’s been texting me again. We met up for breakfast one morning a few weeks ago and had a long chat. Then just this past week I met her again at an event. We got on so effortlessly. We just chatted like crazy, I knew she liked me – and that knowledge helped dispel any low esteem I may have had (something which normally gets in the way where girls are concerned). While talking to her, I found myself completely enchanted by her and thinking some mild sexual thoughts. Nothing major but enough to get me totally confused again :(
Help!
Last week I met a girl who I dated around Pesach time. She was undeniably the girl I’d got on with the best out of all my dates over the years, and when her love for me became apparent, I knew I could mess with her mind no longer so I played my final card and insisted on living in the UK – something I knew she wasn’t prepared to do. The relationship ended, and she turned down my offer to remain friends on the grounds that it would be too difficult for her emotionally. Recently she’s been texting me again. We met up for breakfast one morning a few weeks ago and had a long chat. Then just this past week I met her again at an event. We got on so effortlessly. We just chatted like crazy, I knew she liked me – and that knowledge helped dispel any low esteem I may have had (something which normally gets in the way where girls are concerned). While talking to her, I found myself completely enchanted by her and thinking some mild sexual thoughts. Nothing major but enough to get me totally confused again :(
Help!
Good to read you again!
ReplyDeleteAs you say, this is a difficult one. Try to shut out all interferences from outside, and be totally honest to yourself. Focus on what you feel for that girl: is it that you're attracted to her, or that you like being liked? (maybe it's both things; which of the two is stronger?) Do you feel relief at the possibility of doing what's expected of you, or do you actively want to do it? I hope you have some friend with whom you can discuss this situation - people can help you think, but ultimately nobody can tell you what's the right decision. Pray to G-d honen hadaat, don't be afraid, and I hope G-d will help you see what's going to make you happy.
Lashevet yatsarah...if you can get the equipment to work and produce kids, it's a mitzvah to do so. Gay thoughts never go away. But, one can either try to be a tzaddik or think only with one's.
ReplyDeleteYou know the answer, rosho v'rubo, not rasha v'r'a bo ... as best as you can.
I need to sit down and read your post more carefully before posting a real response, as it looks like something I would love to comment on. But I have to run. The reason I stopped by was to angrily proclaim that you somehow psychically stole the title for my next blog post! The idea is entirely different so I won't have to psychically sue you, but know that my astral projection is watching you.
ReplyDeletehmm thats interesting, well if you can actually be attracted to a woman than there might be hope for you to get married, i guess, it wont take away the gay attraction though.
ReplyDeleteThis is the old conundrum though. How much honesty is required? Must we confess every deviant thought ever to have crossed our mind? Is that normal?
ReplyDeleteMust she be warned or not? There are multiple opinions. But, each person's truth is their own, as unique as one's experience. YG is a clever fellow and understands the benefits of inclusion in community and the consequences of being out. Personally, I hope our hero chooses life.
Ok, now I've actually had an opportunity to read your post in its entirety. Its good to see you posting again! I always appreciate reading what you have to say.
ReplyDeleteA very similar experience pushed my coming out back by almost year. I had come out in high school and was shoved back in the closet by my parents. After a year in Yeshiva, I had finally gotten to a point where I was almost ready to come back out to myself when I suddenly met a great girl. She was the first girl I was attracted to in years and it made me think I might not actually be gay. It was back and forth for a while until it was clear that we weren't a good match, and then I had to really figure out what it all meant. In the end, I had a very clear image of who I am: I am a gay man who is sometimes attracted to women. Generally, women aren't all that interesting to me in a sexual way, but sometimes I find an amazing girl. It doesn't make me any less gay. It just makes me a human being with human desires.
Don't worry about it. I know how confusing it can be, but just because you found a great girl doesn't mean you got it wrong. Don't shut out the possibility of a relationship with her just because you identify as a gay man, don't jump at a relationship because you think it will "fix" you or that its your "last chance," and don't hate yourself for choosing to or not to pursue a relationship with her. Be the wonderful, thoughtful, unique person you are and eventually it'll be a bit clearer. If you really need some helpful explanation, read about Kinsey's studies on male sexuality. (I'm like a 4.5)
Kinsey's studies were biased. He was sleeping with his assistants. Many of those "double blind" interviews were with homosexuals. As the literature reveals, Kinsey's observations aren't exactly objective science at its best. Nevertheless, QY is right on all points, and so are you.
ReplyDeleteAnon.,
ReplyDeleteYeah, Kinsey certainly isn't the most objective of scientists, but his work does have some value and can serve as a reasonable springboard into the topic.
Being out in the Orthodox community is a guarantee for experiencing homophobia which will never disappear, persecution and derision. The only solution is to leave the community. It's a tragic reality. For fundamentalists to acknowledge diversity is threatening to their insular world. Inside, there is only one way. Outside, nothing matters. For them, it's all or nothing. We know better.
ReplyDeleteFor someone who registers a 6 or 7 using your measurements, is the equation any different? One either buys into Torah Judaism to not saddle their donkey or what is needed is a party planner for a gaga, gala celebration.
"While talking to her, I found myself completely enchanted by her and thinking some mild sexual thoughts.":
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of sexual thoughts? Describe them in much detail as you can. And describe what you would like to do to her in the fantasy that you envisioned. I am curious to know how you felt. Do you find her "attractive" or "sexy"?
Hey Baruch,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your voyeuristic interest in this post! But that's really not an avenue I want to go down :)
Well, he's got a point. That would be one way to attract more straight readers. ;)
ReplyDelete@Anonymous 15:54,
ReplyDeleteThere's more than just one type of frumkeit, and several different "orthodox societies". Although what you say is true, it's also true of general non-Jewish society; a gay person isn't the norm, and there will always be someone who reacts badly to that. BUT Yitzi I'm sure you read other blogs, and you'll have seen that some people are kind, understanding, and perfectly ok with frum gays. Things are changing - very slowly.
Things are changing for frum gays willing to commit to other frum gays. Things are changing to the point that in an open society the world can admit some frum Jews are gay. Things are changing that some people are kind and understanding and "perfectly ok with frum gays." So, Yitzie, the logic goes, you should out yourself and adopt children; don't ignore your lust, pursue true passion and you'll be perfectly ok. In numbers, there is strength. We can change the world.
ReplyDeleteBut, is this true? Do what we read on blogs and books matter? Outside the circle who see so clearly, "live and let live" is a religious principle, is being gay and frum ideal for those who wish to be both frum and gay? Do we truly hold, ein bereira? The structure of anatomy argues otherwise.
Yitzi- I had the same thing. Why question it. If you are attracted- then great! What is the hesitation? You feel you need a guy in your life? I am right now dating cause I am attracted to a couple of girls. It's so funny. I have a bunch of straight friends who aren't either attracted to so many girls... or their just looking for supermodels lol. Why can't it just be that we are being very picky and looking for the supermodel woman of our desire. It might take time to find but it can always take time. If your attracted Yitzi you only need this blog to help you with your other distractions but its great if you got a woman!
ReplyDelete